Those left benind

[Chris]

ZLaw

Salvation is through the Blood of Christ (wash, drink, sprinkle or bought.

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and has set us free from our sins by His blood

Clarifying the independence of those bought by His blood, anyone prior to Pentecost was not purchased by His blood.  It is one distinct body Ephesians 1:21-23

Matthew 26:28 For this is My blood [that establishes] the covenant; it is shed for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Shed for many, not for all.

John 6:53 So Jesus said to them, "I assure you: Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you do not have life in yourselves. 54 Anyone who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day,

So how did anyone prior to Christ's death eat of His flesh and drink of His blood?

Romans 5:9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.

Another distinction pertaining to only those who could be saved by His sacrifice, thus proving a difference in the means of salvation prior to His coming.

Colossians 1:20 and through Him to reconcile everything to Himself by making peace through the blood of His cross- whether things on earth or things in heaven.

Yes, as Christ will stand before you and speak on your behalf in Heaven before the Father.

Hebrews 9:22 According to the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

It has always been by blood since Genesis 3:21 but to cover sin not to remove sin, Christ's blood is a removal of sin once and for all.

Hebrews 12:24 to Jesus (mediator of a new covenant), and to the sprinkled blood, which says better things than the [blood] of Abel.

Again, the difference in the blood is covering of sin (Abel) vs. Removal of sin (Christ)
A new covenant pretty much establishes the depth of dispensations.  Why the need for a new spiritual Salvation if one could already be redeemed under the Old Testament?

Bought/Purchased, Not Redeemed

Rev 5:8 When He took the scroll, the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song: You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals; because You were slaughtered, and You redeemed [people] for God by Your blood from every tribe and language and people and nation. 10 You made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign on the earth. 11 Then I looked, and heard the voice of many angels around the throne, and also of the living creatures, and of the elders. Their number was countless thousands, plus thousands of thousands.

Revelation 5:9 (American Standard Version) "purchased unto God"

Revelation 5:9 (New International Version) "purchased men for God"

Revelation 5:9 (New American Standard Bible) "purchased for God with Your blood"



Rev 7:14 I said to him, "Sir, you know." Then he told me: These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Tribulation Saints

"Who are these people robed in white, and where did they come from?" These came through great suffering many I imagine were martyred in His name.

They came out of "the Great Tribulation" let's not add-lib to the word of God here.  Many have suffered for the sake of His name but let's be clear the Saints referred to in this passage are those who are saved by the preaching of the Gospel during the Tribulation by the 144,000.

Immediately following the naming of the 144,000 Jews, John sees myriads of people from every nation and tongue having washed their robes white in the blood of the Lamb but remain in eternity under the tabernacle of God, never to feel the heat and or the sun again, clearly not the ones who reign with the Lamb upon the earth by which His blood they were purchased.

So the Tribulation Saints cannot be part of the purchased as the purchased will return to the earth and those from the Tribulation will not. Revelation 5:9-10

Salvation of the Tribulation Saints

Revelation 7

 1 After his I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that no wind should blow on the earth, or on the sea, or upon any tree.

 2 And I saw another angel ascend from the sunrising, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a great voice to the four angels to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

 3 saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we shall have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.

 4 And I heard the number of them that were sealed, a hundred and forty and four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the children of Israel:

 5 Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand;

 6 Of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand;

 7 Of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand;

 8 Of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

9 After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands;

 10 and they cry with a great voice, saying, Salvation unto our God who sitteth on the throne, and unto the Lamb.

 11 And all the angels were standing round about the throne, and about the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

 12 saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, These that are arrayed in white robes, who are they, and whence came they?

 14 And I say unto him, My lord, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they that come of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God; and they serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall spread his tabernacle over them.

 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun strike upon them, nor any heat:

 17 for the Lamb that is in the midst of the throne shall be their shepherd, and shall guide them unto fountains of waters of life: and God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying , Behold , the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

The Church is the Bride of Messiah, Israel is the wife of Jehovah, Jeremiah 31, 32.

IC
CJ  

[Law]

Clarifying the independence of those bought by His blood, anyone prior to Pentecost was not purchased by His blood.  It is one distinct body Ephesians 1:21-23

Shed for many, not for all.

Yes the L in Calvin's TULIP  -- limited atonement. The sacrifice of Christ on the cross was for the purpose of saving the elect. And sense the elect were known before the foundation of the world (a world created by Christ) is not Abraham in that chosen elect?

So how did anyone prior to Christ's death eat of His flesh and drink of His blood?
Another distinction pertaining to only those who could be saved by His sacrifice, thus proving a difference in the means of salvation prior to His coming.
Yes, as Christ will stand before you and speak on your behalf in Heaven before the Father.

It has always been by blood since Genesis 3:21 but to cover sin not to remove sin, Christ's blood is a removal of sin once and for all.
Again, the difference in the blood is covering of sin (Abel) vs. Removal of sin (Christ)
A new covenant pretty much establishes the depth of dispensations.  Why the need for a new spiritual Salvation if one could already be redeemed under the Old Testament?

Are you saying that those that offered blood sacrifices were given salvation without the need of the Cross, and there was no promise on salvation prior to the cross?


Salvation is of the Jews (John 4:22) Christ is the Savior of the world John 3:16; John 4:42; Acts 3:25-26; Gal. 3:8. Abraham looked forward to the day of Christ (John 8:56).

The Gentiles were included in this promise of salvation. Genesis 12:3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.

Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

We are repeating ourselves CJ like two old ladies in an argument over knitting. 


ZLaw

[Chris]

Yes the L in Calvin's TULIP  -- limited atonement. The sacrifice of Christ on the cross was for the purpose of saving the elect. And sense the elect were known before the foundation of the world (a world created by Christ) is not Abraham in that chosen elect?

ZLaw

Limited atonement???...lol

Ephesians 2:16 clearly defines that the "One New Man" was not in existence prior to the tearing down of the partition between Jew and Gentile,  The chosen elect from the foundation of the earth is the mystery of the Old Testament and the New.

Ephesians 3: 1-10

Mystery Revealed

1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus in behalf of you Gentiles,--

 2 if so be that ye have heard of the dispensation of that grace of God which was given me to you-ward;

 3 how that by revelation was made known unto me the mystery, as I wrote before in few words,

 4 whereby, when ye read, ye can perceive my understanding in the mystery of Christ;

5 which in other generation was not made known unto the sons of men, as it hath now been revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;

 6 to wit, that the Gentiles are fellow-heirs, and fellow-members of the body, and fellow-partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,

 7 whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of that grace of God which was given me according to the working of his power.

 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, was this grace given, to preach unto the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 and to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery which for ages hath been hid in God who created all things;

 10 to the intent that now unto the principalities and the powers in the heavenly places might be made known through the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Are you saying that those that offered blood sacrifices were given salvation without the need of the Cross, and there was no promise on salvation prior to the cross?

Prior to Christ's crucifixion?...they were saved the same as always, through faith.  If Abraham is so important to the Covenant Theologians position of Abraham being the Patriarch of the Church, where does that leave Noah and Adam?

If Paul stated in Ephesians 2:15 that we are a "New Man" created in the body of Christ where does that leave all the others?  To suggest that there was a foreknowledge of the Church is to make assumptions that there was a divine revelation which by inspiration would have been recorded in the Old Testament, yet there is none. 

Thus, one must presuppose a foreknowledge of the Church and or Christ's crucifixion prior to it's existence and would have had to confess Christ as Lord in order to achieve salvation, which again we have no record of in the Old Testament.

As for Adam, Abel, Enoch and Noah...what right does the Covenant Theologian have to deny their salvation or membership to the church if it began with Abraham?

The Lord did not say that He was going to build His Church upon "the rock of Abraham"... all that God said to Abraham was that through his seed many nations shall be blessed, there was no mention of salvation whatsoever, so again this is also a presup.

Salvation is of the Jews (John 4:22) Christ is the Savior of the world John 3:16; John 4:42; Acts 3:25-26; Gal. 3:8. Abraham looked forward to the day of Christ (John 8:56).

John 4:22 - John 1:11
*11 He came unto his own, and they that were his own received him not.* (Jews) ephesians 2:14-16
Abraham looked forward to to the day of Christ so that he could finally take his place in Heaven as he was the guardian of the Old Testament Saints whom he kept in his breast in view of Hades.  He rejoiced in the knowledge of Salvation through Christ as he could see the nearing Kingdom of Heaven in Christ's birth incarnate.

Luke 16:19-31

The Rich Man and Lazarus

19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

 22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

 25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

 27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

 29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

 30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

 31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

So Abraham was to rejoice in the resurrection as Christ would descend into Hades and take the Saints with Him to Heaven.
Matthew 27:51-53

Holy Saints Resurrected

51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

The Gentiles were included in this promise of salvation. Genesis 12:3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.

Genesis 12:3 is a promise of blessings not salvation. Cain was proof of this Genesis 4:5-7

Do well

5 but unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

 6 And Jehovah said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

 7 If thou doest well, shall it not be lifted up? and if thou doest not well, sin coucheth at the door: and unto thee shall be its desire, but do thou rule over it.

When we go back to Jacob in Genesis 30:25-30 we see blessing deposed upon Laban for his treatment of Jacob, as long as Jacob remained with Laban, Laban received blessings although he was not a believer in the God of Abraham but because Laban the pagan's relationship with Jacob the Jew was proper he received many blessings.

Another aspect of the blessings is with Joseph, God yet again blesses a pagan Egyptian for having a proper relationship with Joseph the Jew. Genesis 39:1-5

Does this now mean that the pagan's have salvation because they treated Jacob and Joseph fairly?  Not at all, because they were pagan worshipers they were without God and without Salvation.

Those that use Abraham as the patriarch of the Church seem to share in the same confusion that the term blessing means salvation.

Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

Only from a baptism of the Holy Spirit which did not reveal itself until Acts 2. 
Acts 1:5

We are repeating ourselves CJ like two old ladies in an argument over knitting. 

I'm inclined to disagree there has been no literal scriptural support that Abraham is the father of the Church, where Christ is the head and we are the body.

One must also understand the Old Jewish system for marriage, only a certain few are invited to the wedding but many more are invited to the feast.  Only the Father can name the time of the wedding leaving the Bride and Groom unawares as to when it will take place...what a coincidence.... I think not.

In Christ
C.J.

[Law]

Prior to Christ's crucifixion?...they were saved the same as always, through faith. 

I agree, but Faith in what Chris? If it was not in the faith of the promise of the coming christ, what then? If not why then the crucifixion?

If Abraham is so important to the Covenant Theologians position of Abraham being the Patriarch of the Church, where does that leave Noah and Adam? I'm inclined to disagree there has been no literal scriptural support that Abraham is the father of the Church, where Christ is the head and we are the body.

What are you talking about Chris? Did I say Abraham is the father of the Church?

ZLaw
P.S. I am not into replacement theology, you shouldn't try to but people in your little boxes. God has NOT abandoned the promises made to the Jews. DID (DO) the JEWS undrestand those promises, not yet reading your post.

[Chris]

I agree, but Faith in what Chris?

Faith in God...the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob no?

Exodus 3:6

  Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

If it was not in the faith of the promise of the coming christ, what then? If not why then the crucifixion?

The crucifixion was to Sanctify the Church:

Ephesians 5:25-27

 
 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it;

 26 that he might sanctify it, having cleansed it by the washing of water with the word,

 27 that he might present the church to himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

What are you talking about Chris? Did I say Abraham is the father of the Church?

In not so many words no...but when most people start assuming that Old Testament Saints such as Abraham are part of the Church they take too literally that the blessing promised to the Nations through Abraham is the start of the Church.

P.S. I am not into replacement theology, you shouldn't try to put people in your little boxes. God has NOT abandoned the promises made to the Jews. DID (DO) the JEWS undrestand those promises, not yet reading your post.

ZLaw

Sorry Law,
I'm not trying to upset you, but it is commonplace in Theology that if anyone believes that Israel and the Church are one and the same, they engage in "Replacement Theology" if that is what you believe then I cannot or will not apologize how the Christian theological world views this position.

The Prophets are quite clear, Israel is the Wife of Jehovah and the Church is the Bride of Christ.  These are two distinct entities by which even the resurrections of the two take place at different times.

The Marriage contract with Israel is the book of Deuteronomy, there is an entire prophetic 6 stage sequence of the Marriage, the great Adultery, the Separation, the Divorce, the Punishment and finally the restoration of the Wife of Jehovah.

The Marriage Contract
All of Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy 5:1-3

Deuteronomy 6:10-15

Deuteronomy 7:6-11

Prophets always looked at this covenant as a marriage contract:

Ezekiel 16:8

The Adultery

Jeremiah 3:1-5

Jeremiah 3:20

Jeremiah 31:32

Ezekiel 16:15-34

Hosea 2:2-5

The Separation

Deuteronomy 24:1 ( Isaiah 50:1 )

The Divorce

Jeremiah 3:6-10

The Punishment

Deuteronomy 27:20

Deuteronomy 28:1-6

Deuteronomy 30:1-3 (The Return)

Ezekiel 16:58-59 (necessary punishment)

Hosea 2:6-13 (punishment program)

Jeremiah 3:11-18 (continual call to repentance)

The Re-Marriage (Restored Blessings)

Jeremiah 31:31-34

Ezekiel 16:60-63

Isaiah 54:1-8 (Restoration of Jehovah's wife)

Isaiah 62:4-5

Hosea 2:14-23

and last but not least defining why one should not join the Israel and the Church as one and the same:

Mark 10:2-12

Adultery

Mark 10:2-12 (American Standard Version)

 2 And there came unto him Pharisees, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? trying him.

 3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?

 4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.

 5 But Jesus said unto them, For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.

 6 But from the beginning of the creation, Male and female made he them.

 7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife;

 8 and the two shall become one flesh: so that they are no more two, but one flesh.

 9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

 10 And in the house the disciples asked him again of this matter.

 11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her:

 12 and if she herself shall put away her husband, and marry another, she committeth adultery.

Is the Church not a bride waiting to be married to the groom? 

Where as, Israel is the Wife of Jehovah?

and if the Lamb marries Israel, does that not make us all adulterers according to God's law?

In Christ
C.J.

[Law]

The crucifixion was to Sanctify the Church:

Really... He has no personal relationship with you?

John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Rom. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled , we shall be saved by his life.

How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray , doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you , he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray .


Does the OT tell man how to conquere death? Romans 5:14, Romans 6:4

ZLaw
 luke 22 And he took bread, and gave thanks , and brake it, and gave unto them, saying , This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper , saying , This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

[Chris]

Really... He has no personal relationship with you?

I'm part of the Church a member of the body of Christ as all of us.

Does the OT tell man how to conquer death? Romans 5:14, Romans 6:4

ZLaw

It was not yet revealed in the Old Testament except in Isaiah 25:6-8 but the Jews would not have understood that all the Nations of the earth would be included and that this Prophecy was an invitation to the Marriage Feast of the Lamb.

One of the many mysteries of the O.T. revealed in the N.T. was how Gentiles would be grafted into the promises, blessing and covenants of Israel.  However, the Old Testament Saints will be Judged separately from the Church Daniel 12:2.

Resurrection of O.T. Saints

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

According to 1Thessalonians 4:15-16 all those dead and alive "In Christ" (the Church) who partake in the first resurrection, by which they join Christ in His judgment of the Gentiles at the end of the Tribulation. (emphasis added below)

Power of judgment

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them (The Church): and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God , and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand (Tribulation Saints); and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection (ref v.4).

 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

luke 22 And he took bread, and gave thanks , and brake it, and gave unto them, saying , This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper , saying , This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

The Mosaic Law (covenant) comes to fulfillment through Christ, and the New Covenant (The Law of Christ) begins.

I.C.
CJ

[Law]

luke 22 And he took bread, and gave thanks , and brake it, and gave unto them, saying , This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper , saying , This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you

There was not a Gentile at this table Chris

isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born , unto us a son is given : and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor , The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Christ was born for the Jews Chris and they are the root of the Church even thought they haven't figured that out yet. I would like to talk with you after the millennium and see where you stand then.

Eph 1 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:  Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Rom 3 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law.

Rom 9 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect . For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:  Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called .  That is , They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed……. For the children being not yet born , neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand , not of works, but of him that calleth

ZLaw

[Chris]

luke 22 And he took bread, and gave thanks , and brake it, and gave unto them, saying , This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper , saying , This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you

There was not a Gentile at this table Chris

Agreed, Christ's blood needed to be shed 1st to break down the partition between Jew and Gentile Ephesians 2:14-18.  We know by Acts 10:44-46 that Peter brought the Holy Spirit spirit to the Gentiles which was an unknown mystery to the Jews at that time and they were in awe of the fact that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles:

The Holy Spirit & The Gentiles

44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born , unto us a son is given : and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor , The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Yes, we know who the King is....

Christ was born for the Jews Chris and they are the root of the Church even thought they haven't figured that out yet. I would like to talk with you after the millennium and see where you stand then.
ZLaw

I know he was born for the Jews but their rejection of Him was how the Church would become one with Christ.  We have established that Israel is the Wife of Jehovah and that the Church is the bride of Messiah.  Each will serve their purpose during the Millennial reign of Christ.

Up until the early 20th century the Jews still performed selective marriage.  A minimum of 1 year was required before the father would allow his son to walk with a precession to the unknowing brides father's house in order that he may take her into marriage.

So the bride never knowing when the Bridegroom was to come, always had to be at the ready for the Bridegroom.  Those who participated in the precession and wedding ceremony were few but many were invited to the wedding feast which would last for 7 days.

So from this we can now establish who will be left behind.

In Christ
C.J.